small petty rant

[devi]

Going off on a tangent from stuff discussed in the 101 Tasks comments:

I've never quite got the point of people telling me things - clubs, scenes, subcultures, conventions, festivals - aren't as good as they used to be. This seems to have been a running theme in my life. I always seem to catch on to things late. Then someone pops up and says "It was so much better when people could bring their own drink." Or "All they care about these days is packing in the punters." "It was so much better when people got off with each other at parties." "Goth is dead." "SF is dead." "It's got so *shudder* commercial." "Here's a whole bloody filksong about how much better it used to be when we were young and set the world on fire."

I realise you wish to help and enlighten, but honestly, what difference is it supposed to make to me? Am I supposed to nod and say "well, okay, I won't go then. Thanks for saving me the trouble"? But experience has taught me otherwise. I always do the thing anyway and, guess what, since I wasn't around for the wonderful days of amazingness and don't know what I'm missing, I usually end up having a great time.


But don't mind me, I'm in a vile mood. Everything sucks*. I may have to break out the Diana Wynne Jones.


* edit - things that don't suck: my house, my friends, Battlestar Galactica

Comments

[gillen.livejournal.com]

since I wasn't around for the wonderful days of amazingness and don't know what I'm missing, I usually end up having a great time.

Naturally. And in a few years, when it all goes even further to shit, you'll be able to complain that it used to be so much better. ;)

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

I was wondering, while writing that, if there would come a time when I'd be the cynical oldtimer and get my kicks out of that sort of thing. But I've probably been doing it unconsciously already, about things like BBSs I used to be on, maybe even whole scenes I'm bored with. Oh no! I am One Of Them.

[gillen.livejournal.com]

Oh man... don't get me nostalging for the days of Hanger-18 and ExecPC or even Big Top BBS or we'll never get outta here.

"BBSers are ahead of their time. We're already on WWIV!"

[evilrobotshane.livejournal.com]

I'd totally restrained myself from saying that you're not missing much by not having visited the Ghibli Museum, but I can't fight the power of irony.

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

Ha! Well, you're not saying "I was there when the Ghibli Museum first opened and it was the wickedest thing ever and then they took all those exhibits out", so I don't have to shoot you.

It's more a determination thing because Ivan and I didn't manage to sort out tickets the first time. Unfinished business.

[marnameow.livejournal.com]

That sort of attitude really irritates me too. In particular - Glastonbury. It's a highlight of my universe, in a way. (Or one of the many highlights of my universe, maybe. That seems more right.) And it's a thing that people feel the need to *constantly* harp on about - they were there in the 60s/70s/80s/pre-fence/whatever, and it's not the same at all any more because commercial and they don't let the hippies in for free and and and ad nauseum.

And DO I CARE? I am there for having FUN and for having hippie-batteries recharged, and it does both those things exceedingly well, so GO AWAY!

Um, yes. And I am in a smashing mood, actually, because I have this whole week off from work for yarn, and because I have just bought quite a lot of children's books from Amazon for a penny (plus postage - bah!) to fill out gaps in series-es I have and love.

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

Yes, Glastonbury was one of the things I was thinking of. I am determined to go next time it's on, regardless of whether or not it was much more brilliant twenty years ago. That information is useless to me unless the person concerned can then back it up with a lift to 1969 in their DeLorean.

[redhead-walking.livejournal.com]

Hmf. Some people say it's not as good as it used to be. Others point to improved toilets and washing facilities, boardwalks for getting around when there's one of those great downpours and lower crime rates making it safe to wander round by yourself at night taking it all in. People have an amazing knack to ignore all the improvements when they talk about things not being as good as they used to be.

Also, I kind of think enjoying Glastonbury is more down to you and the people you've gone with.

[carbonunit.livejournal.com]

As a worn out old timer let me tell you the reason for this phenomena: aging.

When someone says "In my day it was all so much better, more genuine, fresher, less commercial, more spontaneous, and generally gooder" what they mean is "In my youth, my liver was more effective at eliminating toxins, my senses were sharper, I was less suspicious and distrustful, more imaginative, wasn't jaded yet, my joints didn't creak, I needed less sleep, and could generally enjoy life more. Alas." Pity them. And enjoy life as much as you can before these things happen to you.

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

A good theory, but one of the people I was thinking of is actually a few years younger than me. But I think he likes to convey the impression that he's as old as the hills and has been On The Scene forever.

[immoline2.livejournal.com]

I agree with you on this one. Theres alot that I still want to do that 'Gene has done already, and he's so anti-everything that isnt as good as it used to be. I'll still enjoy doing that stuff if I had the chance to do it without someone being a downer.

[gaspode.livejournal.com]

I still have fun. SF is still cool. BSG is best thing ever - It even says so in Time Magazine (seriously). I still enjoy running SF pub meets (Talking of which you coming Thursday?). Redemption Conventions get better every time ...

Things change - those who fear change dont like it - (this is the whole Eastercon argument in a nutshell in fact- oh and we are going btw).

New things are great - new people are great and you are one of the best new peopel I've met in a long while so there :)

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

Gosh. Thank you.

[gaspode.livejournal.com]

Oh - and 'I told you so' about BSG :)

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

On Thursday I shall squee at you in person. :)

[the-elyan.livejournal.com]

The thought that the rest of the world might have a fun time too is very threatening to those for whom this particular thing defines their life.

Two things I constantly heard the "it used to be much more real" whinge about:

Camden Town
The Manic Street Preachers

Hope you feel a little better today...

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

Yes, Camden was on the list of things in my head.

Though they may have a point about the Manics. Just recently I had occasion to hear This Is My Truth Tell Me Yours all the way through for the first time in ages and I found it very tedious.

[the-elyan.livejournal.com]

The whiners about Camden infuriate me (though I am slightly worried by the shiny new Camden Exchange building, or whatever it's called).

I know what you mean about This Is My Truth..., though I think there are a couple of cracking songs on it. I would rather listen to Everything Must Go than the Holy Bible though, I'm afraid...

Mind you, we all have a desire to prove we have a secret pleasure that others don't know about - hence my endless proselytising about both Laura Nyro and Jeffrey Bernard (not a combination you hear in the same sentence too often). But then, since they're both dead, the "not as good as they used to be" doesn't really work...

[verlaine.livejournal.com]

These people are still hanging around these subcultures/conventions/festivals, right? (Or else they wouldn't *know* they're "not as good as they used to be".) What kind of poisonous attitude do you have to have, to hang around something loudly complaining, to bright-eyed young people no less, that it was better in the old days?

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

Heh! You are one of the prime proponents of the idea that goth has been shit ever since people stopped being miserable... :)

[verlaine.livejournal.com]

Excuse me? It doesn't do that much for me these days, but when was the last time I (a) claimed to have anything to do with goth or (b) told anyone else what attitude they should take towards goth?

Or indeed (c) even mentioned goth?

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

Okay, that should be "were", and I admit I haven't talked to you about it for maybe, hmm, four years. Scratch that, then.

[secondhand-rick.livejournal.com]

Of course, you know this journal used to be better before I started reading it.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

I suspect LiveJournal as a whole used to be better before I joined it...

[cardinalsin.livejournal.com]

I noticed a definite downhill trend about the time you arrived ;o)

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Pure coincidence, I tells you!

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

It was certainly much less wordy before you started reading it. Hmmm....

[amuchmoreexotic.livejournal.com]

I tell you what didn't used to be better: Battlestar Galactica! Although I'm disappointed they didn't bring back Muffit.

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

I am a complete BSG virgin. I never watched the old series. I wasn't allowed. My mother thought it was 'violent'.

*sucks thumb*

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

It was dire rubbish -- so she was doing you a favour really, though you knew it not at the time.

[amuchmoreexotic.livejournal.com]

It was rubbish, but Muffit had a chimp inside it, which makes it great in retrospect. If possibly a bit wrong. Apparently, the chimp hated humans, but if chimps kidnapped me and forced me to wear a robot bear costume under hot lights, for hours on end, while they talked nonsense at me, I probably wouldn't be too happy either.

[miramanga.livejournal.com]

I <3 DWJ - one of her sons taught me English at secondary school dontcha know!

[pionie.livejournal.com]

I may have to break out the Diana Wynne Jones. Ah those books! I based all my childhood brave orphan fighting the forces of evil fantasies on her stories :)

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

Hurrah! And the kids in them are so resilient, in a very Blitz-spirit sort of way. It's a tonic.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

I suspect this is partly because of her own terrible childhood -- her parents seem to have been quite hopeless, and she was left to fend for herself an awful lot. (The Time of the Ghost domestic arrangements seem pretty close to what she experienced herself.)

"SF is dead."

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

I find this one particularly puzzling. Are these people not watching Doctor Who, or reading Iain M Banks?

Re: "SF is dead."

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

I don't understand it either, but there's been an "Is SF dead?" panel at just about every convention I've ever been to, and on any convention program I've ever seen, however old.

The most recent worry I was aware of seemed to be that "slipstream" writers were trying to merge SF with the mainstream. But I'm sure coalescent could inform us what the real most recent SF health panic has been...

Re: "SF is dead."

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Mmmmm, I suppose I can vaguely see that argument, but it sounds to me like a ghetto mentality. I'm glad there are SF books coming through which don't have irrelevant spaceships on the cover, but aren't the work of dabbling non-SF writers either.
I suppose this is one of the reasons why I tend to avoid 'fandoms'...

Re: "SF is dead."

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Fandoms are rubbish these days compared with what they used to be like... (probably)

Re: "SF is dead."

[cardinalsin.livejournal.com]

Rubbish is rubbish compared to what it used to be like.

Re: "SF is dead."

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

And nostalgia isn't as good as it once was.

Re: "SF is dead."

[cardinalsin.livejournal.com]

Complaining about things being less good then they were has definitely had better days.

Re: "SF is dead."

[verlaine.livejournal.com]

Doctor Who isn't and hasn't ever been (a few odd New Adventures aside) SF.

Re: "SF is dead."

[barrysarll.livejournal.com]

Only if you're using a definition which excludes the vast majority of other science fiction too. Indeed, the afterword to the David Brin graphic novel I read last night had him complaining about the misnaming of the field for much that reason.
It's ultimately as pointless and unprofitable a complaint as those who try to define zombie films to exclude 28 Days Later.

[mooism.livejournal.com]

I think people get bored, and don’t realise they have changed. How to increase their self-awareness?

[erming.livejournal.com]

Sometimes they have a point mind...

I saw Whitby going worse band lineup wise so stopped going. Now I'm going to something by accounts of friends far better (Leipzig).

last Whitby's bands

[erming.livejournal.com]

Dr and the Medics, Mechanical Cabaret, Katscan, The Modern
NFD, Rico, DeathBoy, Neon Zoo

Where as the bands so far announced for Leipzig:

http://www.wave-gotik-treffen.de/english/bands.php

(113 bands and counting)

[dr-f-dellamorte.livejournal.com]

Man, Codex Machine have got SO commercial. You should NEVER listen to them now they're overground....

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

In fact, you shouldn't send me those CDs, I need to find something newer and fresher.

PS: Send me those CDs already! ;>